[Thread Ufficiale] MICROBEAST - flybar elettronico

[GentlemanRider]

Ok quindi rotore rigido -> meno guadagno. Io lo faccio girare piano perchè voglio volare tanto, secondo me se li aumento un pochino dovrebbe migliorare

[afaccin]

Ho fatto anch'io l'acquisto! Mi sono deciso ed ho fatto l'ordine da helygo.. Spero tanto di riuscire ad installarlo perchè non ho esperienza nei sistemi fes!!

[Darkflight]

Ti seguo a ruota (ma non da helygo)
E prima ancora che arrivi già faccio una domanda. Dato che lo userò in una semi-riproduzione pentapala, secondo voi è una buona idea lasciare innestato il cavetto per la chiave usb? Così posso fare delle modifiche al setup senza per forza smontare tutto.

[liftbag]

Originalmente inviato da Darkflight

Ti seguo a ruota (ma non da helygo)
E prima ancora che arrivi già faccio una domanda. Dato che lo userò in una semi-riproduzione pentapala, secondo voi è una buona idea lasciare innestato il cavetto per la chiave usb? Così posso fare delle modifiche al setup senza per forza smontare tutto.

Non vedo controindicazioni. Io ho fatto lo stesso sul Gaui 200

[Bobo67]

Originalmente inviato da GentlemanRider

Ok quindi rotore rigido -> meno guadagno. Io lo faccio girare piano perchè voglio volare tanto, secondo me se li aumento un pochino dovrebbe migliorare

E' probabile, devi far prove, non c'è una regola perchè i fattori in gioco sono troppi, a partire dai servi utilizzati fino ad arrivare al tipo di volo/dito.

[GentlemanRider]

Ieri ho fatto un po' di prove, anche se c'era un po' di vento. Fortunatamente tirava dalla parte 'giusta' ed era costante, alla fine non dava fastidio. Ho notato che bene o male l'elicottero si mantiene stabile (in hovering e nel volato) con il gain (p1) un po' dappertutto, la differenza si nota nelle manovre tirate (ehm) come tic-toc e flip. Aumentando il guadagno l'elicottero risponde in maniera più aggressiva e diretta, ora ho il gain 'alle 11' e mi piace un sacco.

Non sono ancora convinto della coda, nei colpi di passo perde quei 5 o 6 gradi che abbruttiscono i tic toc... Ho notato che il gain dalla radio e il tail dynamic (p3) si influenzano l'un l'altro in maniera considerevole, ad esempio alzando il gain va abbassato il tail dynamic e viceversa. La prova della piroetta stoppata è indicativa ma non sufficiente secondo me, perchè regolando il p3 'a filo' in modo da fermarsi senza sbacchettare poi nel tic toc si sente chiaramente la coda fare 'gnignignignigni' (stile Ruggero De Ceglie ).

Visto che nel calderone c'è pure il tail headlock gain (parametro D) e la precompensazione (da regolarsi al PC) la questione è bella ingarbugliata! Inizio a pensare che il servo (align DS520 su un Protos) non sia all'altezza, ma per ora non voglio cedere. Faccio ancora qualche sessione di prove, intanto capire come gira il fumo dentro la bistecca male non fà.

[Bobo67]

Come caratteristiche il servo ci sta dietro eccome, devi solo trovare la combinazione giusta, dopo aver appurato che i leveraggi della coda siano il più scorrevoli possibile.
Nei colpi di passo prima devi giocare sui parametri della coda "generici", poi quando sei a buon punti agisci unicamente sul revomix.
Ho notato, almeno nei miei eli, che in "fixed point" col CC si guadagna molto in precisione di coda, sempre che si abbia azzeccato il giusto valore di throttle al variare del passo, l'alternativa è in governor ed assolutamente in "set rpm", negli altri modi ci sono piccole oscillazioni.
Sul 600E sono in governor "set rpm" e nei tic-toc è molto preciso, sul 700E vado in "fixed point" ed è stabilissimo, su entrambi ho un DS650 in coda.
Come sensibilità del gyro "a che lettera sei" circa?

[egicar]

Vi riporto qui (in inglese) un'ottima (IMO) guida per il setup, tratta da qui (per chi volesse leggersi tutto il thread):

Tail Setup/Tuning:

1. Dial 3 in middle position and parameter menu item [D] (Heading Lock) to purple
2. I personally start with rudder ATV's at about 105
3. Control behavior to Transmitter mode
4. Rudder expo to 15% (personal choice)
5. Fly and immediately check piro rate and adjust via ATV's if needed. Don't worry about your expo yet. Fly and find maximum tail gyro gain (adjusted in TX) do fast forward and backwards flight if possible. Sliding the tail through a hard bank turn will help if you can't do backwards flight. Adjust right to the point of slight oscillation then back off 3% in the transmitter.
6. With that gyro gain do fast forward flight and piro slowly. Piros should be smooth with no sling-shotting or whipping. If they're not consistent increase parameter [D] and try again.
7. Recheck tail gyro gain then set your expo per personal preference.
8. Finally, adjust the tail stop gain by using Dial 3. Perform fast piros while hovering and quickly release rudder. Observe how the tail stops. If it continues to slide to a stop after you let go then increase Dial 3. If it bounces back then decrease Dial 3. When it gets close listen to the tail blades when you stop. If you can hear them "bark" when the tail stops your just a tad too high on the stop gain.

Head Tuning:

1. Control Behavior in Transmitter mode already
2. Start with ATV's at 100/100 for AIL/ELEV and I usually start about 20% expo. It's really a personal preference though.
3. Both Dial 1 and Dial 2 in middle position.
4. Parameter menu [E] (Stick response) on setting 2. Red flashing LED. Paramter menu [C] (Pitching up Behavior) to "Very Low". Purple LED.
5. Bring heli into a hover for about 5 seconds. Any oscillation in the head then lower Dial 1 in small increments until it's gone.
6. Fly heli and set your Flip/Roll rates via ATV's in the transmitter. Watch for any large bobbles or coasting when letting off the cyclic. If it bobbles reduce Dial 1. If it coasts increase Dial1.
7. Fly in fast forward flight and give moderate sized postive and negative pitch pumps with NO cyclic input. Watch the heli and look for a "dolphin" type movement. If it pitches up and down as you pump the collective increase paramter [C] (Pitching up comensation) one increment at a time until it goes away. You want the lowest setting possible with no negative tendencies.
8. Now comes the part that's a little more difficult to explain. The two main settings left are Dial 1 and Dial 2 and this is where there's really no right or wrong answer per say but a lot more depends on personal feel. Dial 2 (to me) is basically like stick response or that "paddle" feel that many talk about. If you get to the point where the heli just doesn't feel as responsive as you'd like around center stick but you can't reduce your expo any more (or... you've reduced your expo to the point where you're seeing your small corrections that you usually don't see) then increase Dial 2. If you feel like you need more expo but you're starting to surpass 30% then decrease Dial #2. Dial #2 will not affect your flip and roll rates and it is NOT the same thing as expo but to a lesser experienced pilot can feel somwhat similar so don't get them confused or you'll be chasing your tail. Myself, from general flying experience, I know that I'm about a 20%-25% cyclic expo guy. I like a pretty fast flip/roll rate but like to dull it down a tad around center for the precision. So I know that if I get down to around 15% and it still feels a little slow around center then I just go right back to 20% expo and increase Dial 2. Dial 1 is more how "tight" or locked in the cyclic feels. Some people prefer a much more rigid and locked in cyclic so running this gain as high as possible without negative tendencies (elevator bobbles during tic-tocs, etc.) is what you'll want to strive for. If you like a "looser" cyclic (more like a flybar heli) then try decreasing Dial 1. If you get to the point where the heli isn't tracking well and feels slightly unstable in FFF then you're too low.

Tail Precomp Tuning:

1. Activate Collective Precomp with default values and confirm correct Precomp direction (set collective at midstick, apply positive pitch and tail slider should move the same direction as if you gave it right rudder)
2. Set Rate mode gyro gain to the same as your current HH gain.
3. Adjust tail rod for steady tail in a Rate mode hover.
4. Reset tail servo endpoints in Parameter E if mechanical changes were made in step #3.
5. Adjust Collective Precomp value in software to where tail holds steady in a full pitch Rate mode climb-out.
6. Adjust cyclic Precomp to 1/2 the value of your collective Precomp.
7. Back into HH mode and enjoy!

Ciao,
Egidio

[Darkflight]

Originalmente inviato da liftbag

Non vedo controindicazioni. Io ho fatto lo stesso sul Gaui 200

Grazie

[GentlemanRider]

Nelle prossime sessioni provo a ripartire dai default e rifarò tutto il setup come indicato. Ora sto volando abbastanza, conosco l'elicottero e ho visto che con la meccanica a posto resta controllabile anche con dei parametri errati, quindi sono più tranquillo e spero di riuscire a vedere meglio come si comporta e come cambia mano a mano che affino i parametri. Spero di coinvolgere qualcuno dei miei compagni di volo, in 4 occhi si vede meglio. Intanto ho evidenziato in rosso gli errori più grossolani, almeno per il settaggio della coda, sperando che possa essere utile a qualcuno.

Intanto grazie per l'aiuto, spero di aggiornarvi presto con buone notizie

Originalmente inviato da egicar

Vi riporto qui (in inglese) un'ottima (IMO) guida per il setup, tratta da qui (per chi volesse leggersi tutto il thread):

Tail Setup/Tuning:

1. Dial 3 in middle position and parameter menu item [D] (Heading Lock) to purple ERRORE 1: ho fatto il setup coi parametri di default: rosso!

2. I personally start with rudder ATV's at about 105 100, dovrebbe essere ok

3. Control behavior to Transmitter mode ok

4. Rudder expo to 15% (personal choice) ok

5. Fly and immediately check piro rate and adjust via ATV's if needed. Don't worry about your expo yet. Fly and find maximum tail gyro gain (adjusted in TX) do fast forward and backwards flight if possible. Sliding the tail through a hard bank turn will help if you can't do backwards flight. Adjust right to the point of slight oscillation then back off 3% in the transmitter. ERRORE 2: questa parte del setup l'ho fatta appena preso l'eli, non avevo ancora tanta confidenza ed ero fermo da 4 mesi...

6. With that gyro gain do fast forward flight and piro slowly. Piros should be smooth with no sling-shotting or whipping. If they're not consistent increase parameter [D] and try again. ERRORE 2: come sopra, diciamo che mi sono accontentato.

7. Recheck tail gyro gain then set your expo per personal preference. Reckeck in che senso? Gain dalla radio in retromarcia eccetera?

8. Finally, adjust the tail stop gain by using Dial 3. Perform fast piros while hovering and quickly release rudder. Observe how the tail stops. If it continues to slide to a stop after you let go then increase Dial 3. If it bounces back then decrease Dial 3. When it gets close listen to the tail blades when you stop. If you can hear them "bark" when the tail stops your just a tad too high on the stop gain. Ok, qui ci siamo

Head Tuning:

1. Control Behavior in Transmitter mode already
2. Start with ATV's at 100/100 for AIL/ELEV and I usually start about 20% expo. It's really a personal preference though.
3. Both Dial 1 and Dial 2 in middle position.
4. Parameter menu [E] (Stick response) on setting 2. Red flashing LED. Paramter menu [C] (Pitching up Behavior) to "Very Low". Purple LED.
5. Bring heli into a hover for about 5 seconds. Any oscillation in the head then lower Dial 1 in small increments until it's gone.
6. Fly heli and set your Flip/Roll rates via ATV's in the transmitter. Watch for any large bobbles or coasting when letting off the cyclic. If it bobbles reduce Dial 1. If it coasts increase Dial1.
7. Fly in fast forward flight and give moderate sized postive and negative pitch pumps with NO cyclic input. Watch the heli and look for a "dolphin" type movement. If it pitches up and down as you pump the collective increase paramter [C] (Pitching up comensation) one increment at a time until it goes away. You want the lowest setting possible with no negative tendencies.
8. Now comes the part that's a little more difficult to explain. The two main settings left are Dial 1 and Dial 2 and this is where there's really no right or wrong answer per say but a lot more depends on personal feel. Dial 2 (to me) is basically like stick response or that "paddle" feel that many talk about. If you get to the point where the heli just doesn't feel as responsive as you'd like around center stick but you can't reduce your expo any more (or... you've reduced your expo to the point where you're seeing your small corrections that you usually don't see) then increase Dial 2. If you feel like you need more expo but you're starting to surpass 30% then decrease Dial #2. Dial #2 will not affect your flip and roll rates and it is NOT the same thing as expo but to a lesser experienced pilot can feel somwhat similar so don't get them confused or you'll be chasing your tail. Myself, from general flying experience, I know that I'm about a 20%-25% cyclic expo guy. I like a pretty fast flip/roll rate but like to dull it down a tad around center for the precision. So I know that if I get down to around 15% and it still feels a little slow around center then I just go right back to 20% expo and increase Dial 2. Dial 1 is more how "tight" or locked in the cyclic feels. Some people prefer a much more rigid and locked in cyclic so running this gain as high as possible without negative tendencies (elevator bobbles during tic-tocs, etc.) is what you'll want to strive for. If you like a "looser" cyclic (more like a flybar heli) then try decreasing Dial 1. If you get to the point where the heli isn't tracking well and feels slightly unstable in FFF then you're too low.

Tail Precomp Tuning:

1. Activate Collective Precomp with default values and confirm correct Precomp direction (set collective at midstick, apply positive pitch and tail slider should move the same direction as if you gave it right rudder)
2. Set Rate mode gyro gain to the same as your current HH gain.
3. Adjust tail rod for steady tail in a Rate mode hover.
4. Reset tail servo endpoints in Parameter E if mechanical changes were made in step #3.
5. Adjust Collective Precomp value in software to where tail holds steady in a full pitch Rate mode climb-out.
6. Adjust cyclic Precomp to 1/2 the value of your collective Precomp.
7. Back into HH mode and enjoy!

Ciao,
Egidio